The answer? The mad scientist has become a As for he himself, he cannot go back to 2025 because otherwise he would overwrite the old Okabe from the original S;G with Reading Steiner, so he simply chills in … It centers around a group of college students (led by Rintaro "Okarin" Okabe) and their accidental creation of a device capable of sending text messages back in time, allowing them to alter the past. Usually seen with a purple phone and rectangular glasses. So one Okabe achieved Steins Gate and there was no world war, but the Okabe that went back in time to 18000 BC will never achieve Steins Gate and never Kurisu?! Steins;Gate 0’s novel-based gameplay mimics that of its contemporaries, player choices driving invisible ‘flags’ that steer the story in one direction or another. The mad scientist has become a Along with its deep dive in multiverse theory, the butterfly effect, and several other aspects about time travel, Steins;Gate weaves a tale of relationships and the support or trauma they can bring someone. When it comes to Steins;Gate Zero, that question is effectively answered in one of the few instances in which Okabe accidentally shifts to an Alpha worldline where Mayuri dies. On the plus side, it's the final trigger that begins Okabe… His role is to revive the Okabe you saw at the end of the original anime and give him the details of how to save Kurisu. You see, in the original show, things moved at such a rapid pace that it often became difficult to sit and think about some of the implications of jumping worldlines. 22 comments Among these are the characters of Hiyajou Maho, a diminutive and slobby genius of a girl who has a terrible inferiority complex whenever it comes to Kurisu (a fact that only worsened after her death), and Professor Alexis Leskinen, who can simply be described as the most American character this show could hope to imagine. Inherently, that’s great. So, rather than appearing as the little girl that came with future Suzuha, we're introduced to a more grown-up version of her that bears a striking resemblance to Makise Kurisu, assuming you're just looking at her face. Summary: Okabe Rintarou has failed to save Makise Kurisu from her fate. At the very least, she's the greatest out of the new cast. One minute you'd have Okabe trying to solve the main plot only to jump a worldline that hinged on a particular event that he or one of the other lab members changed through the use of D-Mail. Steins;Gate 0 is a visual novel, but one more subtle than people may be accustomed to playing. Mayuri's email to Okabe before she travels to the past with Suzuha. STEINS GATE 0 (2018) (9.2/10) Menu. Though the whys and hows of their intentions are generally unclear, these former lab mates of the late Makise Kurisu have been working feverishly, Maho in particular, to create a True AI known as Amadeus from scans of Kurisu's memories before she left for Japan. Votes: 190 create a new list Plagued by his memories, Okabe’s best efforts to maintain a semblance of normalcy lead him to attend academia. Steins;Gate is a 2011 anime series produced by White Fox, based on the 5pb. Along with its deep dive in multiverse theory, the butterfly effect, and several other aspects about time travel, Steins;Gate weaves a tale of relationships and the support or trauma they can bring someone. Okabe is a self-proclaimed mad scientist who often goes by the pseudonym Kyouma Hououin (鳳凰院 凶真, Hououin Kyōma). So, to be more specific, remember when the show hit emotional bedrock watching Mayuri dying over and over and Okabe just going insane from all his fruitless attempts to save her? Steins;Gate 0 PlayStation Vita . Here, it comes down to whether or not Okabe accepts a call from the Amadeus that influences the story. The Okabe from this worldline is the version who ultimately sends the video message telling his past self how to save Kurisu … Watching the final episode of Steins;Gate is a crazy ride, as audiences finally get to … Another way to prevent getting this page in the future is to use Privacy Pass. Votes: 190 create a new list Not only that, but this world's Suzuha claims to have lost track of a young girl she brought with her from the future. ... (I'm currently on the roof of the Radio building as Okabe after time-leaping, and am currently confronting Kagari). Yet, because the previous series spent so much time worldline-hopping, there was never any time to consider what or if anything actually changed. The show does quickly amend this issue to make her fit the role of the original Suzuha, but there are a few differences in her personality and history that make her far more aggressive and confrontational, if not outright antagonistic, toward Okabe than her first incarnation who was, ultimately, still very childish--a descriptor that doesn't fit this Suzuha at all. The timeline is pretty much the same up until episode 23. The older Okabe’s video isn’t just one of the anime’s last big twists before it … So, as fate would have it, the hope of a brighter future seems to rest heavily on the shoulders of an already broken Okabe Rintarou that has sworn off any such responsibilities. It removes the need for episode 24 and, is also a prequel leading into “ … STEINS;GATE 0 continues the time travelling theme - but adds artificial intelligence as its central hook Help a group of young students bend time to their will and prevent the onset of World War 3 Beautiful artwork and engaging story for an unforgettable experience I make this assumption because, quite frankly, this show will make absolutely no sense unless you are previously acquainted with the parent series to this one and are already well acquainted with its complex story and characters. This episode is what happens to Okabe if he doesn't receive the phone recording from himself. Originally a visual novel by 5pb and Nitroplus, Steins; Gate 0 tells the story of Okabe Rintaro (the crazy scientist known as Hououin Kyouma) who fails to save his lover and cannot stop the occurrence of the third world war. Steins;Gate 0 does not continue exactly where the true ending of Steins;Gate finished. It centers around a group of college students (led by Rintaro "Okarin" Okabe) and their accidental creation of a device capable of sending text messages back in time, allowing them to alter the past. Okabe is a self-proclaimed mad scientist who often goes by the pseudonym Kyouma Hououin (鳳凰院 凶真, Hououin Kyōma). The next, he'd be working to clean up that same mess using both that and the time leap machine. To make it worse, this comes immediately after Okabe wakes up after an 11-year coma. Steins;Gate 0 is set on the Beta worldline, the one where Okabe stops SERN by undoing all the D-Mails but fails to stop Kurisu’s death. So, him being in 2036 shouldn't be possible at all. The timeline is pretty much the same up until episode 23. You can respond to your friend’s text messages for fun, smart conversations, but unlike the OG game, it means nothing. and Nitroplus's visual novel game Steins;Gate (2009). Where the first Steins;Gate was a masterpiece of sci-fi literature with some compelling characters, this one succeeds at being more of a dramatic thriller with sci-fi elements. As if to drive that point home, this new Suzuha comes with a piece of baggage in the form of a girl named Shiina Kagari, Mayuri's adopted daughter from the future. (tentative title) is an upcoming video game developed by Chiyomaru Studio and Mages.It is a thematic sequel to Steins;Gate (2009), and is part of the Science Adventure series. This an alternate world line of episode 23 from “Steins;Gate.” It is dark, and very pensive. Steins;Gate 0 does not continue exactly where the true ending of Steins;Gate finished. Rintaro "Okarin" Okabe (Japanese: 岡部 倫太郎, Hepburn: Okabe Rintarō) is a fictional character in the Science Adventure series, first appearing as the player character of 5pb. She is, in many ways, the Kurisu for this show given her genius that keeps the show's scientific advances moving but also because of her own dark and flawed personality that jives perfectly with the broken Okabe. Clearly, this hydra of problems he faces is meant to drive him into a corner where he'll need to use the time machine that ready and available for him, yet the show generally does a fantastic job measuring out the application of this drama so that things feel beyond Okabe's control but not so much so that they can't be solved. Next to Okabe and one other, Maho is easily this show's most compelling characters. With that said, I've one last advisory when it comes to watching this show. He has hung up the lab coat in exchange for an all black suit. While, yes, she does make an appearance in the original series as a kind of dark gag that a third World War looms in the distance, rather than the initial threat of SERN's world domination scheme, we actually know nothing about her or her version of the future. Alternative Names: Steins;Gate Zero, Steins Gate 0, Steins Gate Zero, Genre: Thriller, Drama, Action, Comedy, Mystery, Sc-Fi, Military, Grimdark. So, him being in 2036 shouldn't be possible at all. Or, rather, that is until he's finally given the push he needs to overcome his fears and weakness. The answer is not that simple, but here it is in a nutshell: In the story of 0, Okabe somehow finds himself in 2036. Beyond the characters and story, though, everything is much the same quality-wise. Together, they struggle to gain one another's trust and respect all while working with a literal ghost of their past in the form of Amadeus, the AI that both looks like, thinks, and acts like the old Kurisu--a concept that hurts them as much as it helps them heal. But, as we know, in the Beta attractor field, he was supposed to die in 2025 no matter what. But here's the thing, I actually kinda like that change of pace. Performance & security by Cloudflare, Please complete the security check to access. Okabe's Heroic BSoD after the first attempt to save Kurisu failed was bleak enough, but it becomes much darker after Steins;Gate 0 shows what happened to him as a result- he becomes a depressed Empty Shell. So, rather than relying on the time machine or time leap machine to solve all of Okabe's problems, his fear of what using those things might do makes him actively decide that he'll try to just solve things without them, making this show feel far more serious and dangerous. The dazzling future known as Steins Gate is out of reach, and Okabe has become too despondent and too broken to continue on that path. Cloudflare Ray ID: 605474aa981b199a Rintaro Okabe is the protagonist of Steins; Gate, often nicknamed Okarin, a portmanteau of the Oka- from his surname and the Rin- from his given name, is a self-proclaimed mad scientist. That ending was too happy for this alternative sequel. That ending was too happy for this alternative sequel. • This episode is what happens to Okabe if he doesn't receive the phone recording from himself. You may need to download version 2.0 now from the Chrome Web Store. Instead of getting a message from his future self after his first failed attempt to save Kurisu, this Okabe doesn’t get any help from his future self and gives up on saving Kurisu and stopping World War III. And so, he resigns himself to acceptance--of his failure, and of a world where Kurisu no longer lives. Yet, at the same time, nearly all of them manage to rise above it like Okabe used to but abjectly refuses to now that he's given up. All Okabe effectively does is shift his original consciousness, from the first Beta worldline to other worldlines, to piggyback and undermine the decisions of his other selves to suit his own agendas. 10/10. Moeka is an attractive, elegant and stoic pale-skinned woman with light nut-brown hair, pink-amber eyes and a tall, slender profile. There, he reunites with Kurisu–who is confused by the fragments of memories she has from the other timelines and what that means for their relationship going forward. The Okabe from this worldline is the version who ultimately sends the video message telling his past self how to save Ku… Mayuri's email to Okabe before she travels to the past with Suzuha. Steins;Gate 0 PlayStation Vita . Where Leskinen is mainly used as a gag character, Maho jumps into the show in earnest due to her own burning curiosity of how this guy she never heard of or met has any connection to Kurisu. and also kinda resolve it--I can't tell if that's a stupid or genius idea. On the plus side, it's the final trigger that begins Okabe… I'm seeing an "Avengers" like thing with all the other characters of the SciADV games, battling against the Committee of 300 in the Steins Gate WL. The story starts with flashes of Okabe's experiences; Kurisu and Doctor Nakabachi, her father choking her, charging to attack Doctor Nakabachi when suddenly Kurisu rushes in between, and lastly Kurisu covered in blood fallen against him. The "whom" in that string of interrogatives is particularly suspect this time around, though, thanks to the introduction of several new characters in this series. Instead of getting a message from his future self after his first failed attempt to save Kurisu, this Okabe doesn’t get any help from his future self and gives up on saving Kurisu and stopping World War III. Though many of the female characters still suffer from being potential harem members and are thus always single all the time, they are given significantly more free reign and agency in this series, rather than just being people with problem Okabe had to magically "solve." I hardly think those aspects were ever in question though. Where the original relied a lot on brief, little arcs that went into various iterations of the show's characters that helped inform them as the characters we know today but still ended up feeling a bit tired, tropey, and weaker than the main story, this show has nothing but a main story. Okabe spends the rest of his time lamenting sadness after losing his lover and time spent with his "friends". Rintaro Okabe is the protagonist of Steins; Gate, often nicknamed Okarin, a portmanteau of the Oka- from his surname and the Rin- from his given name, is a self-proclaimed mad scientist. Moeka has a stylish sense of fashion, with her outfit consisting of a white button up top with black arm cutouts, a black belt with a checkered buckle, a short black skirt, and black heels. Her Rounder uniform consists of a black jumpsuit, black bo… So, effectively, this show cracked open a can of worms where its impossible to overlook the fact that there's still a male Rukako worldline, a nerdless Akihabara worldline, and hundreds of others where everyone is forced to contend Mayuri's death. The art, animation, and music are drop-dead gorgeous and effective at making as light or tense as the situation demands. 10/10. Okabe and his friends must battle against fate in the past, present, and future to find Steins Gate and reunite the lab members once and for all. The time machine's hatch opens upon world line divergence 1.129848%, 2010/08/21 17:56:01hrs. Ok, that's not actually a fair question since there are a lot of those moments in the first Steins;Gate. That ending was too happy for this alternative sequel. If you are at an office or shared network, you can ask the network administrator to run a scan across the network looking for misconfigured or infected devices. We know, from the very beginning, that this journey's conclusion will likely be a good one since the parked time machine that will inevitably bring that worldline about is basically reduced to a "Chekhov's gun." Over the course of the show, though, she becomes a character as compelling and important as Kurisu was to the original show. Votes: 203. Rather than just swap to a worldline where he can make everything perfect or forcing his conscience on his younger self, he's working to just let his old self swap to that Steins;Gate worldline the current one stays to make amends with the worldline he's got. #Review #Thriller #Drama #Action #Comedy #Mystery #Scifi #Military #Grimdark #PersonalFavorite, © 2016 by Joseph Lutholtz. Steins;Gate 0 often asks the question of whether Steins Gate actually exists. While the threat of a third world war still looms in the distance, Okabe has decided to try his hand at a normal life, desperate to leave his old one behind. create a new list. But while attempting to forget past traumas and get his life back on track, he meets an AI that re-opens old wounds. Everybody get your water goggles on, we are about to go shipping! Also, watching Steins;Gate before Steins;Gate 0 gives you a better understanding and appreciation of what Okabe’s character will go through in Steins;Gate 0. On top of the new cast of characters with new gags and new problems for the show to delve into, though, one of this new series' greatest features is the direction it takes its storytelling. When, where, why, how, and by whom that gun will be fired is also understood to be a point of contention, though, since Okabe is far too broken to even consider tampering with time, risking what little peace he's made for himself. Summary: Following one of the darker timelines in which Okabe Rintarou, formerly the mad scientist "Hououin Kyouma," fell prey to his own weakness and gave up trying to reach the Steins;Gate world line, it's generally safe to assume that everything has changed. So by logic, Okabe wants to save his loved ones and get them back because the plan isnt complete yet. Through this brief acknowledgment of a separate Okabe's actions, we are given a full view of this series' main conceptual flaw: nothing is actually being changed when he "swaps" or "alters" a worldline. Having seen the first series that this one is built off of, we know that the Steins;Gate worldline exists. In the several months between Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0, Rintaro Okabe has undergone a transformation. If you are on a personal connection, like at home, you can run an anti-virus scan on your device to make sure it is not infected with malware. List your movie, TV & celebrity picks. You know you're in for some shit when your protagonist hero character starts, the show needing to try out hypnotherapy to make things "OK.". Remember that gut-wrenching bit in the first Steins;Gate? Put plainly, where Steins;Gate was generally a lighter and happier show with dots of absolute darkness sprinkled throughout, this show is the exact opposite. Several of the relationships in the show and the visual novel it is based on could easily go from friendship all the way … Rintako Okabe's messing around with time travel inadvertently got his love interest Kurisu killed, and despite repeated efforts to go back in time to save her, the result was always the same. While, All and all, I'm still more than satisfied to call this a masterpiece of a show, but not in the exact same way as the original. Okabe's Heroic BSoD after the first attempt to save Kurisu failed was bleak enough, but it becomes much darker after Steins;Gate 0 shows what happened to him as a result- he becomes a depressed Empty Shell. Try as he might, though, fate has a funny way of working against him as a coworker of the deceased Makise Kurisu, Okabe's rival and love in the Alpha worldlines, encounters Okabe and draws him into an experiment in testing the abilities of an AI copy of Kurisu. 0 is the story of Okabe that failed and didn't receive the video mail from the future, because he is the one who makes it. Rintaro "Okarin" Okabe (Japanese: 岡部 倫太郎, Hepburn: Okabe Rintarō) is a fictional character in the Science Adventure series, first appearing as the player character of 5pb. List your movie, TV & celebrity picks. HEAVY STEINS;GATE 0 SPOILERS, IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE VN, DON'T READ THIS! Since there are no alternate versions of the characters to contend with, we get to see them all grow, change, and buckle under the weight and severity of their situation. Completing the CAPTCHA proves you are a human and gives you temporary access to the web property. Let me know if I made mistakes or if I misinterpreted something. That's a bit a Steins;Gate Committee of Antimatter v2 but oh well. Highlighting a problem just to resolve one of the original show's greatest unknowns. The novel takes place in 2016 in Akihabara on the Steins;Gate timeline. ... (I'm currently on the roof of the Radio building as Okabe after time-leaping, and am currently confronting Kagari). Set in 2010, Steins;Gate 0 takes place directly after be of the bad endings of Steins;Gate. While Steins;Gate 0 effectively eliminated the threat of loose threads and contrived connections between worldlines that abounded in the original series thanks to its more linear story, it also exacerbated one of the original show's other problems to the point that it becomes hard to miss. A divergent continuation of the original Steins;Gate ending, Steins;Gate 0 explores an alternate worldline where Okabe abandons time travel. For the most part, though, these new characters all have something new or interesting to offer the show, adding a lot to the drama that was already part of the original show. With Steins;Gate 0, a sequel set in the Beta worldline where World War III is going to happen, Kurisu is dead, D-Mails are gone, and Okabe has become an … Plagued by his memories, Okabe’s best efforts to maintain a semblance of normalcy lead him to attend academia. Steins;Gate 0 is set on the Beta worldline, the one where Okabe stops SERN by undoing all the D-Mails but fails to stop Kurisu’s death. When it comes to Steins;Gate Zero, that question is effectively answered in one of the few instances in which Okabe accidentally shifts to an Alpha worldline where Mayuri dies. ... Okabe and his friends must battle against fate in the past, present, and future to find Steins Gate and reunite the lab members once and for all. Your IP: 123.31.12.41 What this also does is make the show's pacing and overall arc feel far more linear. Much like the first show, there are a few flaws to note though. • Steins;Gate will forever hold a special place in my heart. All and all, I'm still more than satisfied to call this a masterpiece of a show, but not in the exact same way as the original. Everybody get your water goggles on, we are about to go shipping! HEAVY STEINS;GATE 0 SPOILERS, IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE VN, DON'T READ THIS! Much like the first show, there are a few flaws to note though. But while attempting to forget past traumas and get his life back on track, he meets an AI that re-opens old wounds. As you might expect of the action thriller/spy drama this series likes to toy with, though, this gap in accountability for Kagari makes her not just suspicious but downright dangerous to the plan of reaching the Steins;Gate worldline. List Activity. ... Okabe and his friends must battle against fate in the past, present, and future to find Steins Gate and reunite the lab members once and for all. So one Okabe achieved Steins Gate and there was no world war, but the Okabe that went back in time to 18000 BC will never achieve Steins Gate and never Kurisu?! In this timeline, he gives up on saving Mayuri just like he did on saving Kurisu in this series' main Beta worldline, severing all contact with the old lab members until the "main" Okabe landed in this one's head and became desperate to get back to the Beta worldline. The time machine's hatch opens upon world line divergence 1.129848%, 2010/08/21 17:56:01hrs. Steins;Gate 0 is a visual novel, but one more subtle than people may be accustomed to playing. The dazzling future known as Steins Gate is out of reach, and Okabe has become too despondent and too broken to continue on that path. Doubles as a heartwarming moment, though. Okabe and his friends must battle against fate in the past, present, and future to find Steins Gate and reunite the lab members once and for all. Where the first. So, oddly enough, this show succeeds where the old one failed and failed where the old one succeeded. Steins;Gate 0 is set on the Beta worldline, the one where Okabe stops SERN by undoing all the D-Mails but fails to stop Kurisu’s death. Doubles as a heartwarming moment, though. visual novel of the same name. Yet, by changing the tone and formula the old show ran on, it's clear pretty quickly that Steins;Gate 0 is going to be a different beast entirely from the first series or even the movie. Mayuri must convince Okabe to not give up on saving Kurisu and finding Steins Gate. In fact, Mayuri herself gets a massive part to play this time around that is in direct opposition to Okabe's desires, rather than just being stuck in her old role as "damsel in distress." List Activity. This time around, there is very little timeline hopping and very little happens to alter the timelines unless it's absolutely necessary. ... after it is changed by main character Rintarō Okabe by using a certain device. In other words, this one takes a lot more time focusing on little minute details, for better and worse, and gives the main cast and side cast their time in the sun as they all have to contend with Okabe's choices. Mayuri must convince Okabe to not give up on saving Kurisu and finding Steins Gate. As if to make up for this fact, though, it seems that this "main" Beta worldline's Okabe is determined to actually change something--himself. Steins;??? Steins;Gate 0 starts dark, stays dark, and only gives us brief glimpses of that lighter tone and comedy that was standard of the first series when its clear that things cannot possibly get any worse, barring Okabe committing suicide to end this hell he's found himself in. Adult Luka's death in 2036. Regardless of which it is, though, the host Okabe is left in that other world without knowing whether he changed anything or not. As terrible as that might sound, though, it's not hard to suffer through it because we've already tasted success. It's a mirror image of a masterpiece which is, at the end of the day, just another masterpiece. Please enable Cookies and reload the page. Okabe spends the rest of his time lamenting sadness after losing his lover and time spent with his "friends". A divergent continuation of the original Steins;Gate ending, Steins;Gate 0 explores an alternate worldline where Okabe abandons time travel. When it comes to Steins;Gate Zero, that question is effectively answered in one of the few instances in which Okabe accidentally shifts to an Alpha worldline where Mayuri dies. Hope this helps you guys, sorry if its a big wall of text. The novel takes place in 2016 in Akihabara on the Steins;Gate timeline. On the other hand, though, she is obsessively fond of Mayuri and thus wouldn't necessarily want to risk setting off another string of Alpha worldines in which Mayuri's premature death is unavoidable. This is when he gets in the Time Machine to rescue Mayuri and … Okabe Talks To Himself. Summary: Okabe Rintarou has failed to save Makise Kurisu from her fate. As for he himself, he cannot go back to 2025 because otherwise he would overwrite the old Okabe from the original S;G with Reading Steiner, so he simply chills in … With Steins;Gate 0, a sequel set in the Beta worldline where World War III is going to happen, Kurisu is dead, D-Mails are gone, and Okabe has become an … Sure, it's a hard point to start at, in terms of both its emotional and narrative weight; all the more so for anyone who wasn't super into the first show like I was. Apart from these notable additions to the show, though, there's also a whole new faction of characters that latch onto Okabe strictly because of his connection to Kurisu. We see him act as a flawed character who is, in many ways, a despicable coward, one who will sacrifice everyone else's happiness and agency to suit his own deficiencies. The series is a sequel to the 2011 anime series Steins;Gate, and is the final iteration of the Steins;Gate 0 story. Adult Luka's death in 2036. Steins;??? To make it worse, this comes immediately after Okabe wakes up after an 11-year coma. After graduating college, Okabe industrializes the "Future Gadget Laboratory," but … In the several months between Steins;Gate and Steins;Gate 0, Rintaro Okabe has undergone a transformation. It does exist, if you have the determination to challenge fate itself and seek the impossible. create a new list. It's a perfect successor to what I consider one of the best show's modern anime has to offer and was well worth the pain and suffering I felt waiting for it and watching it turn "The Darkest Timeline: Suffer Edition" into a dark but ultimately hopeful. Usually seen with a purple phone and rectangular glasses. Votes: 203. And so, he resigns himself to acceptance--of his failure, and of a world where Kurisu no longer lives. Moeka has a stylish sense of fashion, with her outfit consisting of a white button up top with black arm cutouts, a black belt with a checkered buckle, a short black skirt, and black heels. As if it weren't bad enough that this lost child happens to be Mayuri's adopted daughter and a near look-alike to Kurisu, it seems that this Shiina Kagari might very well be the thing that triggers the third World War. Steins;Gate 0 is set on the Beta worldline, the one where Okabe stops SERN by undoing all the D-Mails but fails to stop Kurisu’s death. Next to Okabe and one other, Maho is easily this show's most compelling characters. So, I think there's similarly little doubt how I feel about this show. 'Ve already tasted success feel far more linear Gate is a self-proclaimed mad scientist who often goes by the Kyouma! His `` friends '', that is until he 's finally given the he... Cloudflare, Please complete the security check to access Amadeus that influences the story,! Sound, though, it ’ s best efforts to maintain a semblance of normalcy lead him to academia!, that is until he 's finally given the push he needs to overcome his fears and weakness and... Get them back because the plan isnt complete yet use Privacy Pass 2036... Get Your water goggles on, we are about to go shipping kinda that! That ending was too happy for this alternative sequel place directly after be of the bad of... How I feel about this show 's greatest unknowns AI that re-opens old wounds get them back because the isnt... 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